January 7, 2006 at 6:07 pm #3127
On the surface this seems like a juvenile question, but what I am looking for is a clear reasoned response detailing offenses, defenses, issues with mass differential, etc. of the two. Interest in the engagement by both creatures should be removed from the equation. (Both of these creatures represent the high end of their species)
Who would win a 13 foot / 2.5 ton Kodiak or a 130 foot / 150 ton) Blue Whale? Would there be advantages if the arena were on Land vs on sea?
January 7, 2006 at 6:12 pm #36490
A whale doesnt know how to fight. It has no instinct for that. It might take that bear a little while but it’d get the job done eventually. What do you think, Dave?
January 7, 2006 at 6:19 pm #36492
Seconds on the bear.
Whale: "Doesn’t look like krill….."
Bear: "WOW! That’s a huge seal! I won’t have to hunt for the rest of the season!"
Potted Petunias: "Oh no. Not again."
January 7, 2006 at 6:20 pm #36493
[quote="Jschiers"] Interest in the engagement by both creatures should be removed from the equation.
January 7, 2006 at 8:08 pm #36500
I would say neither since the bear would never attack a blue whale and if it does the blue whale will simply dive in the water and swimm away
January 8, 2006 at 7:19 pm #36596
"Bears are supreme blue whale hunters, often swimming thousands of miles just to attack their favorite prey, the blue whale" Encyclopedia Britannica
January 9, 2006 at 7:51 pm #36672
Really? Someone please explain this to me..
January 10, 2006 at 12:23 am #36703
"The Blue Whale will, in the winter, retreat to warmer waters off the coast of the Galapagos Islands in an effort to gain as much distance as possible from its’ most formidable opponent; the Great Arctic Kodiak Bear. The large land-based mammals typically take to the seas in groups, known as a Sleuth Of Bears. A normal sized sleuth consisting of up to 12 adult bears can surround a pod of blue whales and, in a matter of weeks reduce the giant water-bound creatures to bones before returning home to hibernate." -Rogettes Collegiate International Encyclopedia
January 10, 2006 at 12:32 am #36704
Hmmmm. Jonfpalmer, can you provide a the year of the encyclopedia so I can validate this quote.
Does anyone else have any data on the defenses the "pod of blue whales" would use to counter this surrounding attack performed by the Kodiaks?
Also, could you define "in winter", how long is the winter and in general which months would it encompass in a normal year?
thanks for the feedback
January 10, 2006 at 2:27 am #36707
Thanks for the comic relief ::):
January 10, 2006 at 3:11 am #36712amoebapowerParticipant
i dont think it would be much of a contest . on land whales cant move on land and bears cant breath under water 🙂
January 10, 2006 at 8:41 pm #36796
That’s what i said. A whale can survive 2 hours under water. So wouldn’t it simply go to the deep, swimm away and pop up a kilometer away?
January 11, 2006 at 5:56 am #36832
So are we saying that if the Kodiak sleuth attacked quickly enough they could take down a blue whale in the water? quickly enough that the blue whale could not react and drag them to the depths it can survive yet they can’t.
What about on land? I am hearing that the blue whale can’t move. Is this true? Could it not roll over on the Kodiak? I am not sure if the whale has the dexterity or muscle control to perform such a feat and we are talking a 145+ ton difference between the creatures. It sounds like the concensus is that the whale would be at the bear’s mercy on land.
finally, has anyone ever heard of the whale using its tail as a defense or offense mechanism? I can’t imagine it would be weak. It is the muscle group that propels the creature all over the ocean.
thanks again for everyones help.
January 12, 2006 at 6:49 pm #36977CarolynparsonsParticipant
A blue whale would die if beached, it would sufficate under its own weight, without the bouyance of the water.
January 12, 2006 at 7:57 pm #36985
Right. Means the Bear wins. Thereby proving that the bear is a much more efficient fighter both on land and in the water. The blue whale has no chance against the amphibious assault of such a proficient killing machine.
January 12, 2006 at 8:02 pm #36987
How long would it take for the whale to suffocate on land? Can’t it hold its breath for 2 hours? Shouldn’t it be able to at least fight for its life prior to suffocating?
On land, is this a function of the whale might kill the bear, but the whale will definitely die?
January 13, 2006 at 1:38 am #37018quote Jschiers:
As long as it’s not busy say, fighting a bear or something……
January 13, 2006 at 2:14 pm #37077CarolynparsonsParticipant
Its weight crushes its organs, and sufficates it, I found one account of a blue whale beaching itself one night and dying the next day ~12hours. But Blue whale beachings are very uncommon because they stay in the deep water and avoid shores.
I think a blue whale is too massive to fight off anything once beached. Killer whales can chase seals on to the beach and wiggle its way back to the water but a blue whale would probably be just a unmovable mass.
January 13, 2006 at 2:33 pm #37080Dr.SteinParticipant
I should know what the competition is before choose one for the winner 😉
January 13, 2006 at 8:35 pm #37115quote Dr.Stein:
The competition would be for survival in a physical contest. Whoever survives the conflict wins. The victor does not need to eat the loser, but it would certainly be their treat if they did.
January 13, 2006 at 8:39 pm #37116
January 13, 2006 at 8:43 pm #37118
Given the nature of Blue Whales and Kodiak Bears it would seem that there wouldn’t even be a fight. Whales are used to dealing with attacks from sharks and other whales, I don’t see a way the they would even fear bears.
January 13, 2006 at 11:48 pm #37128
but if the whale called its allies the nubian goats, assorted mountain cats and fossa they would form a force so powerful(THe Fantastic Four) that the bear would instantly explode out of sheer amazement
January 14, 2006 at 12:16 am #37132quote ZakaSPFC:
Hey man. Please keep the conversation to a realistic level. 🙂
January 14, 2006 at 12:19 am #37133
Really, we’re trying to be serious here……..
We now return you to our premier presentation of "When Whales Attack!"
January 14, 2006 at 1:20 am #37137ThebearwinsParticipant
First some background.
The bear in in question:
– The TRUE Story of the person who shot it can be found here.
The Whale in question:
Now let’s look @ some size comparisons.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/sgifs/ … risons.GIF
Using that scaled drawing the Giraffe is roughly the size of the grizzly in question. Standing @ 14 feet it is almost 3/4th the height of a Trex, and weighing in @ roughly 1 ton.
The paws on the bear are larger than a human head with claws up to 7 inches long. Further research into the outer skin thickness of a blue whale has sadly been unfruitful however, I was able to find this.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& … blue+whale
Read the third listing down stating that whale blubber is roughly 2 inches thick.
So by this estimation Mr. (or Mrs.) Grizzly bear is going to have a full 5 inches of tearage into such things as vital organs and what-not. I would imagine that roughly 30 seconds to 1 minute of this behavior would result in a mortally wounded Blue Whale, leaving a wide blood swath in the water that would if nothing else bring in your ordinary average underwater predator to finish off the already dying blue whale.
In this situation it is abundantly clear that:
Bear > Blue whale.
Here in this thread I have seen the argument that the blue whale will simply dive underwater in which case the grizzly would simply LET GO. Whale swims away in terror and bear swims to shore.
Where I grew up, running away meant the other guy won.
Again: Bear > Whale
After further study of blue whale physiology the only true defense would be its massive weight, which while in the water cannot be brought to bear (hyuck). The blue whale body is extremely elongated and allows no more than 90 degrees of tale motion in any direction meaning that your average grizzly which when fighting such a large opponent having gone directly for the eyeballs and jugular would be far forward of this pittance of threat.
So we are left with the whales abilities on land, where a smart grizzly would walk to the front of the whale and beat the living hell out of its face easily avoiding any sluggish attempts on the whales part to roll over.
Thru much deliberation and intense background study, with some help from local resources and experts in Bear vs whale combat the only viable situation where a blue whale could actually beat the grizzly bear, is if it were dropped from a height of no less than 50 yards attaining roughly 27.8% of a whales terminal velocity in earths atmosphere to crush the grizzly beneath its weight.
However in this situation the whale would suffer mortal injury once again and the best conclusion I can make would be:
Bear == Whale
But, since last I checked whales cannot jump 50 yards into the air, this is a moot point.
As you can clearly see, a Grizzly Bear will always win vs a blue whale.
Thank you for your time,
January 14, 2006 at 2:17 am #37146quote Thebearwins:
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjec … hale.shtml
These gray-blue whales have 2 blowholes and a 2-14 inch (5-30 cm) thick layer of blubber.
We are talking about the high end of both species… largest bear in the world vs largest whale in the world. The range of 2 inches to 14 inches would indicate that the largest whale would have 14 inches of blubber: meaning that the bear can penetrate 7 inches and the whale still has 7 inches of protective blubber between the bear and its vital organs.
The advantage that TheBearWins describes in the previous post is eliminted/mitigated.
Any thoughts on this argument?
January 14, 2006 at 3:41 am #37157ThebearwinsParticipant
The "biggest" does not necessarily translate to the most overweight.
its possible that the bear has the body style to pull of the combat while the whale does not, also, cutting into fat will produce pain/bleeding that will as discussed in my 2nd point above draw in the local "bad crowd" to end the whales misery.
The blubber layers will only protect for the first 1-2 swipes anyway. STill allowing the bear to tear a whole in his/her allotted 20-30s reaching the vital organs.
January 15, 2006 at 1:45 am #37245
The true winner would be the one that better uses its habitat to elude the only common predator, the human. The effect of the extinction of one on the other can be analyzed if that was the context of the first post in this string, but this would take some careful deliberation.
January 16, 2006 at 4:05 pm #37374
I believe, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but humans are taken out of the equation. If we include humans then there are also millions of variables that could come into play and if we include them all then the topic would be impossible to answer. Many good points have been raised thus far with out bringing outside factors in.
Plus, a human would lose against both a bear and a blue whale in "hand to hand" combat which is what the fight between the bear and blue whale is.
January 17, 2006 at 6:59 pm #37521sanusidParticipant
Sure the whale has a thick layer of blubber protecting it’s enourmous body. But have we taken into account the hardened barnacles? This almost acts as a plate of armor for the whale.
A quick quote from a website (http://whale.wheelock.edu/archives/ask03/0208.html):
There does not seem to be a symbiotic relationship between whales and
barnacles unless you consider humpback whales using their barnacles as
weapons for fighting during times of competition symbiotic.
Albeit, the article did not mention blue whales but blue whale do have barnacles.
Also, does the mood change for a whale while in heat? I mean if in heat or "season" would the whale be more aggressive? I don’t think a bear would stand up against 150 tons if rammed even once by the whale going 30 mph (http://www.acsonline.org/factpack/bluewhl.htm). And if in heat?
We might have to make a gladiator arena for these animals to battle appropriately. And if possible. Do we make a point system for hits, ect? Or is this just a win or die situation?
January 18, 2006 at 2:29 am #37543aynrandsbroParticipant
Interesting that sanusid should bring into the discussion the topic of sexual aggression, most specifically whether or not the whale being in heat – in estrus, more correctly, would have any bearing on the battle betwixt itself and the kodiak.
If the whale were a female, I would hazard a guess that it would have some bearing, at least, given that we all know females in heat turn into whiney, moany bitches, who want nothing more than a giant penis shoved you know where. And they want it now. If the kodiak bear is perceived as being in the way of receiving said sexual pounding, then my money is definitely on the blue whale.
If it’s a male blue whale, the case in favor of the whale is perhaps even stronger. Consider the following urban legend – laugh at it first, and then let’s get back to the facts:
The facts are that a blue whale penis can be up to 16 feet in length, which would be larger than our colossal kodiak bear. Given a fight between said bear and a male blue whale who’d just watched a Discovery Channel special on himself, and thus had a massive hard-on, I’d say, once again, the whale wins. In water or or land, the whale would easily be able to use his massive reproductive organ as an effective and deadly weapon, capable of delivering quite a pounding to the bear. Furthermore, if the whale was beached, it could easily use its reproductive systems has a giant offensive weapon of sorts, given that the 25 lb testicles definitely hold enough seminal fluid to pack quite a punch when traveling through the air at high velocity.
Whale with erect penis wins, hands down. I mean, think about it. When you’ve got an erection, guys, you get what you want, right? Even if you have to take matters into your own hands, but especially if there’s a big hairy… bear… involved.
January 18, 2006 at 6:10 pm #37598
Aynrandsbro, you took an tasteful forum and distorted it completely. Why would you take it to that level?
I agree that certain changes in a creature depending on their cycle would cause them to be initially more aggressive but during the attack their survival instinct would kick in and they would fight to live even if the attacker was in heat.
I don’t think penis size has anything to do with the contest we have been talking about and I hope you will keep comments like that between you and your friends and off of the forum.
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