I dont believe people can be born gay. Its a choice. A very sick choice. People were not meant to be with their own genders. Its just wrong!

I think that some parts of human behaviour is also determined by his/her genetic even though majority is determined by his/her surrounding environments. So, there’ll always be a possibility for a man born gay.. 😉

I totally disagree with the it would be a sick choice. Like this post you state that being gay is like an afful disease and the nazis in the second world war thought the same …. 👿 (i don’t like this kind of statements)

I’m not gay, but yes environment plays an important role. But i’ve read something that gays have higher levels of oestrogens than testosteron. So i believe people can be born gay.

There’s both genetic and environmental factors and the question isn’t really which is more influential, but how do they interact….almost a direct quote from my anthropology book.

Yes

and may I add, from personal observations, that some chromosone abnormalities can and do occur as to sexual identity. I have known "males" from the age of three years old who always behaved femine. Also, I know peo[pe who were sexualy molested as children by the same sex and who later chose to be gay. There is a tremendous inner turmoil that they go through and horrible depreesion.

For the reminder who choose to be gay I have no clue. 😕

Most managers are gay as far as i know. guess its coz they see men most of the time hence they are attracted to them. statistically, men have sexual thoughts every 9 secs. so if there are men in front of them al the time they will begin to fantasise about them.

what do u think

Define manager…
They see men most of the time? Should I assume that most of the workforce is male only? Most of the time I see either bacteria or computer when I am working, will I becoe sexually attracted by computers and Petri Dishes?
Men have sexual thougts every 9 secs… today I was calculating statistics for all morning, I don’t think any sexual thoughts ever cross my mind in those 4 hours.

What do I think: All of this utterly and completely stupid.

agreed^

also I believe that people are not born homosexual, even though some males may have a lower testosterone level in their bodies. Testosterone may define how "manly" someone might be(e.g. bigger muscles, more hair, lower voice…all things detirmined by testosterone). But that does not detirmine their sexual preference. Their sexual preference is detirmined by environmental affects. These are just my thoughts on the topic.

Hmmm…according to the book that I read (it’s title is GENOME by Matt Ridley), people (men) have the tendency to be born gay. The book said that the tendency depends on the frequency of a mother in giving birth a boy.
Example like if a mother have 4 sons, then the highest tendency to be gay is on the fouth son. The book also said that it’s due to the mother’s genetic ability (in her uterus) in male brain masculanisation is getting decreased as every giving birth to boy
But afterall, still, the book said that even though one has a tendency of becoming a gay, he would not be a gay unless he got the supporting environment. So, here we can see that environment plays a major role in "gay-ing" someone….:lol:

I have personaly observed this in a family.
and the strongest evidence was with a man who had an uncle who was gay, three brothers out of 5 beame gay. He found out 26 years after the fact that his girlfriend (at the time he called himself bi) never got the abortion he thought and had the baby. 26 years later he met up with a young man in the gay bar he worked at and found out (also took test) that he was this young gay mans father. conclusion> must be genetic? or….. 😕 did the girlfriend keep a certain enviroment?

Oh yes….true, true that book I mentioned also said about the mother’s relative…especially uncle..hmm, this can be confusing…when the tendency of becoming gay meet the supporting factors… 😉

well i believe that if your not gay then you realy shouldnt have a sey in how you think gay people got that way you never know how you make gay people fell with the comments that you say

That’s stupid, it’s like saying because you’re not jewish you don’t have a say about anti-semitism.

Cool – i’ve read that book too 😉

Hmm i think it’s multi-factorial, with a blend of environmental and genetic influences?

Just a personal take on it.

In regards to the book on genome. We dont know what most of the big genes do. So to assume that guy knows what might cause someone to be gay in a gene that he probably doesnt know where it is is a slight stretch. Maybe we should quote books that have some footing in fact. The truth is it could be social it could be environmental it just be a couple wires are crossed. Its like asking why I have a thing for redheads. Who knows maybe its in the genes and maybe its not.

Yeah i agree – and i think it’s definitely multi-factorial rather than because of just one factor (e.g environmental).

I think it’ll be "breaking news" if they ever manage to link certain genes to homosexuality.

Yeah I agree with some people that born gay is possible. Its a matter of the hormone concentration of an individual. Higher level of estrogen in male would act like a feminine, but not all of them end up a 100 % gay. Because I knew some male who are feminine type who got married with a beautiful wife and have a beautiful kids. Another thing some feminine type males ended up as a gay because of the environmental factors and the type of community.

Just my opinion on this:

The popularity of shows like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and "Trading Spouses" can affect how men see what are ways to get ladies to like them…frankly the whole "metrosexual" thing borders on homosexuality at times. If you want to say environment or society…well there’s your example.

Sexual aparatus is in the brain ;not in the body.

—
rAgAv.

If this were true, all of my squad buddies from the Marine Corps should be gay, but we weren’t. Sexual thoughts every 9 seconds? Bull.

And if you’re not male, you can’t study the Y-chromosome. If you’re not Christian, you can’t read the Bible. If you’re not black, you can’t admire Martin Luther King, Jr. Get real!

How very true.

I agree that it’s probably a mix of genetic and environmental factors. I also think that a person’s sexual orientation can change during their lifetime; just look at all those stories you hear from people who’ve been through prison.

I honestly think I agree with the great comedian Ron White, that we’re all gay, it’s just to what extent are you gay (or straight, for that matter).

I also don’t think being feminine equates to being gay. I know quite a few guys who are feminine but aren’t gay.

lol….yeah…..i dunt realli think they ppl can b born gay!…it is as many have said
Multi – factorial … environment + genes

Question: Is it considered abnormal?

Could be hormonal included 🙂

I’ve heard that younh gay children are more violent towards other children. My friend even stated that gay children and adults usually look uglier than normal people, but I doubt genes would cause such a difference.

Uglier? This is very subjective 😕

yes… just because you are gay doesn’t mean you are not as good looking as the rest. Some known supermodels are gay. I believe being gay is affected mainly by the environment. It is possible though that some genetic variation can occur or that an environmental trigger would cause a gene to manifest and favor the "gayish" behavior. I don’t believe its an abnormality though same as I don’t believe that they are more violent or uglier.

well , i dont really think that they can born gay, but by living in an invironment that supports or do not disagree with idea of being homosexual, he/she can become "gay" !!

we are aaaaaaaaaaaaallll happyyyyyyy

Nop, no chance to born gay.

Gays are influenced by environment/ situations ect.

it may be psychic.

Mostly Psychological.

Depression. Feeling of lonelyness Due to no GF, BF.

Or feeling of more secure with close friend than others.
Afried of making friend of opp sex.

Many……………More

What’s this? 🙄 What’s the relevance between all happy and born gay? 😆

uhh it was a joke- 🙄

OK but explain why Some boys were "feminish"
even in kindergarden and they became gay ?

The feminish could be due to the lack of some enzymes which function to convert progesteron into androgen, or lack of enzyme to activate testosteron, or could be they have female enzyme to convert androgen into estrogen 😕

Feeling of more secure with close friend than others.
Afried of making friend of opp sex.

What about bi? I think I am bi 😕 😆 😆

😕 Is it Joke?

Ja. It is Halloween day, I think that is horrible enough to scare you 😆

Really 🙁
😯 I SHoked 😕

Baba yaga is comming for you now 😆 😛

Awawwawawawaaaaa

*speechless*

*gulp*

😆

How can people born gay? F*cking man’s ass doesn’t carry any biological function, so they would get extincted if they ignored females for reproduction. Thus, being gay is just to satisfy one’s sexual wishes, just to enjoy.
It’s not a disease: child with Down syndrome cannot change his phenotype, but gay CHOOSES to "love" the same gender. No one makes him to go to gay bar. Generally, no one makes him to "love" at all. He chooses between to supress his wishes or to get droven by them. If one cannot then what makes one’s behavior be different from animal’s?

yes i agree with this. a homosexual gene would be self eliminating. except you presume monogomy, which is the only hole in this idea. i do think that if homosexuality was entirely acceptable by everyone, and homosexuals did not practice hetero-sex at all, we would still find the number of homosexuals would not decrease. even though it would be quite evident that no homosexuals were passing on their genes. simply because any human sexual behaviour that doesn’t start with the intention of producing offspring and thus end with producing offspring, is derived psychologically. and so it has to be addressed psychologically. yes that includes hetero-sex that is practiced to satisfy ones sexual wishes 😉 . if sex is practiced without the intention of producing offspring then it has no biological funcion in hetero-sex or homo-sex. both types of sexual behaviours have the same function psychologically though. psychological relief, stress release. im not quite sure on the pespective of a female regarding sex. if there are any psychological benefits from practicing sex i would imagine they ar ethe same as for males. i always thought women didnt like it or need it as a stress release.

i dont think a homosexual chooses to be so anymore than a hetersexual chooses to be so. like you said, a person cannot choose to have or not to have a genetic disorder, but at the same time, a person cannot choose to have or not to have a psychological disorder. the child is shaped by its environment to behave differently. people may be offended by labling homosexuality a psychological disorder but the practice of sex in all its forms (including hetero.) which doesn’t begin with the intention of producing offspring is concidered a psychological disorder by some psychologists.

at the same time. its no ones intension to demonise anyone for the way they bahave because for the most part people dont really know the reasons for these behaviours. people assume hetero-sex is ‘normal’ but it is different to procreation. it just isn’t as abstract as homo-sex. to understand sexual behaviour we have to address the psychological need for it. when that is understood and being fixed we wont need sex for anything except procreation.

suppression of our desires doesn’t set us apart from the animals. its our ability to understand our world that does. sex has a cause. we will find it and then address it in all its forms.

Andrea Dworkin, "All sex is abuse"

the only reason humans have sex is produce offspring to keep the spices going being gay benefits NO ONE in the history of ever meaning its unnatural

please extrapolate on these ‘spices’.

Absolutely agree! More over i would say any human behaviour that doesn’t start with the intention of producing offspring is derived psychologically. For example, playing chess or painting or creating music.
And I am absolutely not against homosexuals. Nevertheless I think there’s some difference between desire to create chess combination and enjoy its beauty and desire to put one’s dick into other man’s rectum. The same would be about heterosexual behavior if it didn’t have reproductive function.
Of course, what I think is fully subjective.

It does 🙂 It demonstrates that human has free will ( well, not all humans do).
Btw, what do you mean by understanding our world?

That’s right. But Down syndrome child cannot escape his fate ( by his own means, at least; hopefully sometime gene therapy will solve the problem)
F*cking man’s ass desire can be easily subdued:
"When asked how to avoid the temptation to lust of the flesh, Diogenes began masturbating. When rebuked for doing so, he replied, `If only I could soothe my hunger by rubbing my belly.`"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope

species as in any speices (yes thats humans as well were a species) have to produce offspring, by being gay people don’t add on to any of our gene pool and just cause problems with all those diseases and news crap

i think you are blurring the line between reproductive functionality and reproductive intention. just because a man and a woman can have a child by having sex doesn’t mean its normal behaviour to be having sexual encounters when ever they please. hetero-sex without reproducing serves to appease the desires, it serves no biological function. of course we can say if sex helps people cope psychologically then it does serve a biological function, since less stressed individuals are more likely to live better lives. but then this would apply to all forms of sexual relief of stress. but as a species we have tried to control our sexual desires because we collectively know that relinquishing ourselves to them is bad and destructive to our innocence and innocence around us.

humans are a product of Earth. everything about us must have some perfectly understandable biological process that occurred which resulted in us. including our psychological state. its our capacity to reflect these processes in our mind, understand cause and effect that sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. imo. ‘free will’ is a term thrown around but isn’t really made understandable. does it mean we can do whatever we please? i dont think we can. behaviour is something shaped and moulded from the instant our mothers hold us after being born. concious awareness of self occurs at around the age of 8/9. by then your behaviour has been determined. sure we have the capacity to change our behaviour. but this is not a concious factor in our development. only when we start understanding the reasons for our behaviour can we start to conciously change it.

its not so easy escaping a psychological state. first theres denial that you actually have a problem. then theres the problem of actually finding the process that led to our human condition, how it occured. how to implement changes in your own life to change and so on.

at this point in time alot of people are just denying there is a problem to begin with. homosexuals are firm in the belief that they are ‘normal’. because what they measure themselves against is heterosexual behaviour. so when its seen from that perspective, where any heterosexual behaviour (short of rape and child molestation) is percieved as ‘normal’, homosexual behaviour where two people of concenting age condone the behaviour can also be percieved as normal. promiscuity by heterosexuals is concidered normal but it could be that this behaviour infact leads to more abstract sexual behaviours like homosexuality. there are a lot of factors that contribute to a person becoming sexually promiscuous.

It’s biological to a point.

People simply ignore social norms. If they choose to ignore social norms, be controlled by their biological aspects, then they will choose to be homosexual.

It’s biological. However, it’s primitive in my opinion. My belief is that human beings are suppose to evolve beyond biological cravings, drives, and passions; and they are suppose to use logic, rationality, and intellect to choose how they go about life.

However, I do not believe that is the case in homosexuals. I have spoken to many, and they simply said biological drives made them homosexual. Biological drives make people want to kill retards, the disabled, etc. in a darwinistic effort; but most don’t kill people.

Apparently this is a choice. It’s a choice driven by biology. And homosexual, in my opinion, are weak minded. They are weak minded because they are driven by biology.

And, funny enough, they’ll probably die out. Sadly, however, bisexuals are the problem. They are bisexual, typically conform to a heterosexual norm, and give birth to children who may become homosexual or bisexual, thus perpetuating the problem of individuals basing choices on biological drive, rather than logic or rationality.

Do not care about homosexuals. They are not your problem. The bisexuals are the problem.

yes i agree. i think that everything is biological to some degree.

how do we define social norms? what are the bounderies? are they the same for you and a seventy year old lady? from a biological perspective i think that if we are to understand these behaviours we shouldn’t be making facts out of cookie-cutter perspectives that place ‘this’ behaviour within the circle of acceptance actually denying it real scientific focus and scrutiny. we only find this happening to behaviour outside the circle, perceived as unacceptable. i think the perspective has to be widened. the question is, why do we even practice sex if not to procreate? that is the key question in regards to sexual behaviour, whether perceived as ‘normal’ or ‘immoral’. to "keep the spices going", as someone has already said, is unintelligible.

by choose you mean suppress (in the process becoming superficial, fake and delusional). and by supress you mean the total opposite of understand. and by choosing to not understand ultimately forgo logic, rationality, and intellect. this is the road we are headed down because people absolutely refuse to widen their perspective.

it sounds like you are proposing that we all want to kill mentally/physically handicapped people due to a primitive biological drive to do so, yet we sustain from that action because we suppress it…? because we choose not to, over and above the fact of actually wanting to 😯 ..?? social darwinism is outdated and irrelevent for the moral and altruistic beings we are. yes im optimistic. 😉

it doesn’t make sense to base your opinion on that summation in the first sentence (that i highlighted and underlined^). does the "weak minded" opinion apply to heterosexuals that practice sex due to their biological drive? if not, my question is why?

so heterosexuals base their choices on logic and rationality yet all the other sexual behaviours are based on biological drives? also the fact that you previously state that rationality should be used by homo/bi-sexuals thus becoming straight and conforming to the ‘norm’. yet when they do that they are still a problem. your biological-drive/choice opinion is antagonistic. it doesn’t make sense.

i am infinately sadened to hear you say that. no im not gay/bi. it does sound like you have chosen to forgo your own logic/rationality/compassion.

maybe this topic has got a little off course. to reiterate. i dont think homosexuality is a genetic trait. my other posts explain why i think this. and i propose the real question that lurks behind this one, why do we even practice sex if not to procreate? whether it be hetero-sex or homo-sex.

I am interested in the psychology of homosexuality.
Again in my observations I noted that three males who were femine since early childhood, were sexualy molested when children by a man and later became gay.

Were they targets of the pervert because they were femine? and having been introduced to homosexuality it is what they became accustomed to?
This perv who molested them left other more macho kids alone.

Many cases involve molestation. 💡

The same thing happens with some woman who are molested as children, why do they become promiscuous? Even become strippers or hookers?

now I cant figure out why these same three men have relatives who are also gay, almost like its genetic?

one huge point of interest in all child psycholigical development investigations is the amount of good nurturing mothers are giving their children. alot of the abstract behaviours we are witnessing nowadays (and in sheer volume) is being blamed on the mother child bond, or lack there of (Read the article, The Social Necessity of Nurturance, by Betty McCollister, in the Humanist journal, if you cant find it ill save a copy from uni). Of course its unintelligible to simply blame parents who are wholey unconcious of what they are doing wrong. This begs the question how parents lost their ability to provide exceptional nurturing in the first place. so that is the point that has to be investigated so that we can rectify the situation. McCollister’s article is very informative on child nurturing and the effects this has on the development of the child although a bit right wing.

Behaviours are also handed down to the next generation and are shared by family members especially when it comes to social/interactive/nurturing behaviours. So in the case of the boys you knew, the reason there are quite a few homosexuals in the family may come down to the type of nurturance that has developed through the history of that family (in generations). The reason they were targeted may be for many reasons. their family life might have made them submissive which can be picked up by a very aware peadophile. their feminine/innocent looks are also a targetting point. the word ‘fukc’ quite simply implies to destroy. and what is being destroyed is their innocence, and that is what excites peadophiles. of course to have a proper understanding of the situation we have to ask ourselves how a human being could have become like this. its strange to think that a peadophile was once an innocent child too… its a very sad situation humanity is in.

Oh, really? So you’re saying that you choose to be straight? It’s not like anyone woke up one morning and said "You know, I think I’ll be gay today."

Why would anyone choose to have such rude and rather ignorant remarks directed at them? Why would anyone choose to put up with people like you if they didn’t have to?

And quite frankly, on what evidence can you say that homosexuality is a choise? Are you gay? No? I didn’t think so.

No one can choose who they’re attracted to, everyone has a ‘type.’

So let’s be a little less ignorant to things like this, thank you.

In this sense, bigots like you probably aren’t any help to our gene pool anyway.

i dont think that a person can be born gay i think it is the environmental factors and men and women are totally different i think it is just an excuse for people to be gay.

On the other hand, if you have erection and can have sex with a guy, why not have sex with a woman instead? It is so simple, and having sex with a woman is so much more hygienic than with a man! 🙂

I just don’t understand why how can guys fuck guys.

Well, it is what YOU think, because you are staight (heterosexual). Those gays don’t interested on women, which means they cannot errect and enjoy their time while with women. They will get aroused when they are with guys. Definetely, there is something inside their mind, to lead into this gayness, as I said, it could be physiological thing (hormone) or could be psychological things (environment, experience in the past).

many have related being gay to endocrine disrupters. (IE- lesbian seagulls) endocrine disruptors are of course a biological disposition, not a choice. I have observed many children display traits of homosexuality at a young age, even more than normal, or not just knowing better, and turn out to be homosexual in adult life. Very interesting debate…

i agree with dr. stein, it has something to do about the environment, like for example perhaps that person was surrounded or living in a place full of females, then being influenced by them…. or some, like in a boarding school for boys only, they could feel, due to their surrounding, full of boys that the person possesses a feeling same as the females…

i’m not if this is true or not but i think that there is some kind of chemical in the brain that i guess trigures someone to be attracted to the same sex. Now to add to that, that chemical (or something) is there because it is written in that person’s genetic material. So like those who are heterosexual (i think thats how u spell it) do have this chemical, or it could be the other way around like those who are homosexual don’t have this chemical in the brain to say say that they are heterosexual.

maybe. lol

I agree but i wouldnt go as far as calling it sick because that causes massive backlash.

But its obvious men and women were created for a reason

If people were meant to be with their own genders why didnt we all get given the organs to deal with the offspring.

Can you understand what im saying here???

I apologize to all homosexual men and women that may be angered by reading this post. This is not an attack on a sexuality but my own view.

p.s – I read somewhere that a pregnant mother being exposed to certain plastics may give birth to a gay child, could anyone elaborate

If the monomers of these plastics resemble the structure of a particular hormone, then it might do something.

,

hmmmm, depends which way you look at it, some say gays are pointless, they cannot breed or continue the human race, in a sence they are a waste of space and genes.
others say that everyone has a right to love another.

i have no opinion on this topic

I don’t mean to start anything, but that is extremely ignorant. I’m not gay, but I do support love, whether it be between man and woman, man and man, or woman and woman. If they want to be with each other, more power to them. I’m sure they see your heterosexual relationships as sick.

Anyways,

I think that people are born gay as a result of a genetic mutation. I don’t see how a male can be born in a household filled with alpha males and traditionalists and turn out gay. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

Gays don’t necessarily see heteros as being sick(I live close enough to SF to know).

And you might want to look up some psych theories

These are the most UN scientific based responses imaginable. I really thought this forum was about science. I am a gay man.. I don’t have any gay uncles.. I wasn’t molested as a child… I am quite "Straight" in appearance and actions… I have more than adequate levels of testosterone… I am not effeminate in any way.. Let’s see.. is there anything else… oh yes… my existence is quite quite relevant…my contributions to society are very important and we really have enough people going forth and multiplying that not all of us need to!! There!! That feels better!

There is a strip that goes down the center of the brain and controls the way the hemispheres communicate with each other. in men its thick, in woman it is thin.

In a gay man it is thin and in a gay woman it is thick. It can be biological or environmental, but that is the closes biological reason we have. that is also why some gay woman look and act more like men and vice versa.

The strip theory is also being used to explain female serial killers and there more masculine behavior. Aileen Wuornos is a good example of this. She killed truck drivers in Florida in the early 90’s. She acted very masculine and was more attracted to woman than men, although that can be attributed to her background with sexual abuse as well.

But after she was executed they did a full autopsy and found that the strip in her brain was thick.

I guess alot of it has to do with the person’s background and experiences but there is a biological reason for this that does lead, at least me to believe that yes you can be born with the mind of the opposite sex and therefore in the "Wrong body."

And before anyone jumps at me, I only speak for me.
Reggie

Well, maybe you should try asking a gay person instead of asserting you know their thought processes. Also, be careful when describing another individual’s development as having problems, being improper, etc. If the Nazis won, then everyone with dark hair would have a development problem. Its just different. Leave your value judgements for yourself.

Oh, and there are countless examples of homosexuality in nature, including our nearest relatives.

I wasn’t implying that I know any of there thought processes although I probably should have left out that thing about Aileen wurnose, I only added that because I think it is interesting. My apologies if I offended anyone.

The strip theory is just that a theory, but i think it explains at least in the female a part of why they may be strongly attracted to the same sex. I do know that monkeys sometimes resort to homosexual behavior at times, but not strictly as it isn’t beneficial to procreation.

I don’t think that it is a choice as everyone that I have known to be attracted to the same sex, myself included to a point has stated that they always felt that way and always knew. I don’t agree that it is an imbalance in the brain as that points toward a dysfunction, but I also don’t think that it is entirely circumstantial because one of my best gay friends had a pretty "White picket fence" childhood.
I do however think that it is everyones right to do as they please in the sense that if that is what makes you happy that that is you basic human right.

And before anyone of strong belief jumps on me no that doesn’t mean I condone murder or pedifiles. Just your right to be happy with who you love.

Reggie

I don’t believe being a heterosexual is genetic. Obviously it’s due to some environmental factors. A guy spending too much time around women can cause them to feel similar to the women and lead him to behave like a lesbian.

I don’t want to go as far as to say that heterosexuality is sick (that might cause some backlash) but how can someone contemplate raising a child within such a contentious houshold??? I mean if god had wanted men and women to be together he would have made them more similar.

And it’s dangerous in such a large society for someone to have a dysfunction like heterosexuality, that kind of behavior leads to unwanted pregnancies in a world that is already full of children without parents and shortage of resources.

Some recent studies have shown that straight men have significantly lower levels of testosterone than gay men. This might be caused by the fact that they have so much less sex due to their attraction to people on a completely different sexual drive, but it could also be an indicator of a biological component.

Personally I don’t have a problem with straight people, I mean I have straight friends, but how could someone think that is natural?

Men are supposed to be with men, obviously, and women with women, I mean even when they are deviant heterosexuals they still spend a majority of time with members of the same sex… that should tell you something!

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