Immortality? Possibility?

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    • #6537
      Oscerot
      Participant

      I want to be immortal! 😈

      Anyways, with the….limitless possibilities genetic engineering promises, do you think it is possible to achieve immortality in a living organism, specifically, in human beings?

      Do you think it will happen eventually?

    • #62634
      honeev
      Keymaster

      y would you like to be immortal? would you like to see all youve loved pass away befor ur eyes?

    • #62635
      Oscerot
      Participant

      Obviously not. I’m talking about everyone, that is; everyone becomes immortal. So no one dies.

    • #62640
      honeev
      Keymaster

      we will soon be crowded if death never existed … 😀

    • #62641
      Oscerot
      Participant

      Well yes, and no.

      If we had immortality, we could preserve the great minds of the world that make things go ’round. Our intellect of science would experience a state of constant quantum leapage (so I made up that word…)

    • #62759
      destiny
      Participant

      Immortal? I guess it’s not possible. I once read from a book whereby scientist said that human being immortal is not possible, people will die eventually.

    • #62813
      Oscerot
      Participant

      How many times have scientists hypothesis’ proven to be incorrect?

    • #62819
      kjle
      Participant

      true enough, but it won’t happen. I believe this is going into things more than physical. We’re entering a different world really. There is more to life than our physical bodies. I don’t believe that God would allow for us to live forever.

      I know you’ll probably all say that there is no proof, and what I said isn’t scientific.

      And yes the world would become overcrowded.

    • #62836
      Oscerot
      Participant

      I’m not asking a theological perspective. No God speak please.

      It’s a really interesting concept:
      http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/tech/20 … 511780.htm

      Already we’ve found a possible anti-aging molecule, which, if it proves to be correct;

      quote :

      “We also found the synthetic compound can reverse aging, by revitalizing already-lethargic cells. Theoretically, this can give youth to the elderly via rejuvenating cells,’’ the 41-year-old said.

      Just imagine if you can walk into a store and for $50 bucks put 30 or more years on your life.

      quote :

      Kim expected that the CGK733-empowered drugs that keep cells youthful far beyond their normal life span would be commercialized in less than 10 years.
    • #62870
      sachin
      Participant

      We need Age regolator, I think?

    • #62924
      mith
      Participant
      quote Oscerot:

      Well yes, and no.

      If we had immortality, we could preserve the great minds of the world that make things go ’round. Our intellect of science would experience a state of constant quantum leapage (so I made up that word…)

      And do we let the criminals die? Who get’s to decide who lives or dies?

    • #62925
      Oscerot
      Participant

      MEH! >=D

      No, but in all seriousness. Criminals are the ones who get the immortality first. This way, a life sentence is REALLY a life sentence. 😆

    • #63014
      MrMistery
      Participant

      to condemn someone to an eternity in jail? sounds like hell on earth..

    • #63021
      sachin
      Participant

      But I think nobody will get bored if He/She remain 25 ever and if no close relative will die(mother, father ect.)

      isn’t it???????????

    • #63050
      Oscerot
      Participant

      Granted that not everyone will want to live forever. But most people will. I’m actually assuming most people will use it to live a few hundred years, get bored, than decide to forcefully kill themselves.

      This "immortality" doesn’t mean you cannot die. Because if you chop of your head, you’re pretty much dead. Indestructability is something else entirely.

      I’m pretty sure most prisoners sentenced to life will probably commit suicide.

    • #63092
      destiny
      Participant

      Just imagine a person who is 20 this year and 100 years later, he/she still remains 20…I guess this person will eventually kill themselves cos he/she is tired of living…

    • #63108
      Oscerot
      Participant

      Well, I’m sure there would be some people that would do that. But then again, some people even do that now when they’re only 20.

      By the way,

      Reno > Yuna

    • #63110
      sachin
      Participant

      Live Life Forever And Die respectfully for Nation…

    • #63215
      Dustfinger
      Participant

      I’d like us to be immortal too, but if we get immortal sometimes…..goodnight, Planet Earth.

    • #63798
      Enzyme
      Participant

      Inmortality…

      This topic has been followed by mankind since the beginning of history and nowadays many scientists are trying to reveal this mystery. Technological and scientific advances have done possible the progress of this interesting field. Now we have Genetic Engineering, higher knowledge in processes of aging (telomerase activity, apoptosis, free radicals action, cell division, etc) and more capacity to understand changes.

      People have increased their life expectancy throughout time but, do we really want to live forever? That’s the question ;).

    • #63802
      Schröder
      Participant

      Hmm…there’s no way in hell biology would be able to make people live forever. I mean even if scientists were able to some how stop ageing or do something to the genetic makeup of the body it still won’t make a difference. Because someone could get killed by accidents, murder, e.t.c.

      BTW: I wouldn’t want to live forever that;s for sure 😉 I spend a lot of time with my grandparents and their friends and when I see their expressions on their faces, I see that they’ve experienced life in its glories and its failures, that’s what life is about then you move on. Experiencing that all over again makes no sense whatsoever. And also, there isn’t a lot of things in this world that I hold on to so….

    • #63808
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote Schröder:

      Hmm…there’s no way in hell biology would be able to make people live forever. I mean even if scientists were able to some how stop ageing or do something to the genetic makeup of the body it still won’t make a difference. Because someone could get killed by accidents, murder, e.t.c.

      Accidents, murders, etc are exceptions because they aren’t natural processes. We could include those exceptions if they were part of our natural life cycle, I mean, physiologically talking. But, as they aren’t… Only we can say that they are mishaps/inconvenients.

      I think that in a further future, scientists will discover the secret of avoiding ageing. At least, the secret of increasing life expectancy many more. But we (humans) need a lot of time and concentration to think and solve important mysteries, so… Keep waiting! 😉

    • #63809
      Schröder
      Participant
      quote Enzyme:

      quote Schröder:

      But we (humans) need a lot of time and concentration to think and solve important mysteries, so… Keep waiting! 😉

      Heh! I agree wholeheartedly!

    • #63810
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote Schröder:

      Heh! I agree wholeheartedly!

      Our true and important unknowns are in Science and many people only are worried about becoming rich 😥 (and I ask myself: "Which are these people’s intentions/goals/interests?". Really, discoveries are the "machine" that moves the world).

    • #63828
      Oscerot
      Participant

      Yes, but in our world, money is responsible for the discoveries.

      😆

    • #63830
      Schröder
      Participant
      quote Oscerot:

      Yes, but in our world, money is responsible for the discoveries.

      😆

      Unfortunately…..

    • #63850
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote Oscerot:

      Yes, but in our world, money is responsible for the discoveries.

      😆

      Unfortunately (as our friend Schröder says). Curiosity should move discoveries (research in general), not money.

    • #63851
      baikuza
      Participant

      as i know it is impossible to make a living thing to be immortal.
      in my point of view, living thing will be die. nothing is immortal. even we use hi-tech. we still cannot live forever.

      why i said this?
      because it is a cycle of life. if something is arise to be alive, then someday it will disappear from that world. especially if it has the physical shape like us. then it said that many things like telomerase, ect… influence the life span. but, all of thing on this world is just energy, energy that take physical shape.. (in the point of a biologist).. and energy never stay at one shape if it take some/an activity. so, simply.. if we do not want to die just do not do anything. but, because we now is alive and alive defined when we do metabolism.. which is activity.. then we will die someday…

      my friend read a book about this topic, and in the book.. it said that we can lenghten our life span, but as the consequence is our cells become a cancer cells.

      we have time because we are alive, and time is a precious thing we have… so utilize it wisely. (^_^)

    • #63853
      Enzyme
      Participant

      @ baikuza: I agree with you in that living beings have to die to complete the nature cycle. This is a natural process and it has to occur to be in balance with nature.

      But, if we can locate genes which produce certain diseases, which control ageing and development and which regulate the expresion of certain characters… Why couldn’t we manipulate them to avoid physiological processes?

      The premise of Genetic Engineering is that the genetic information encoded in DNA is a great resource which can be manipulated to obtain certain objectives in science (microbian production of molecules like antibiotics and others, transgenic plants and animals, new diagnostics, etc).

      Nowadays we don’t know how to make the most of the possibilities of this great advance but, in the future? Inmortality is a difficult goal to reach (at least in our time), but I think that in a further future mankind will discover the way to increase life expectancy a lot.

    • #63857
      baikuza
      Participant

      🙂 . that will be great. many people will cure by that if we can destroy the cell that’s sick of disease(s), and can buy some time for the one who have a short age from the diagnostic at hospital.

      but, do not said that it will manipulate human genes. 😕 i kinda disagree with it.. but, it is different if the object want it…

    • #63860
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote baikuza:

      but, do not said that it will manipulate human genes. 😕 i kinda disagree with it.. but, it is different if the object want it…

      I think that if the manipulation (treatment, operation, handle or as you want to call it) is for avoiding diseases, to cure cancers or to proliferate cells to obtain a tissue or an organ (I mean, to make better our society), I’m totally in agree. But, I disagree the manipulation for stupid militar experiments and that kind of things :?.

    • #63866
      Oscerot
      Participant

      Unlike me who is totally interested in incorporating certain animal genes into our genomes. 😆

    • #63867
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote Oscerot:

      Unlike me who is totally interested in incorporating certain animal genes into our genomes. 😆

      If those genes make a benefit in humans… 😉

    • #63891
      sachin
      Participant

      Of course those will be, except some mutations…

    • #63892
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote sachin_at_biog:

      except some mutations…

      Casualities of life, he he ;). You know the environment is an important factor…

    • #63894
      sachin
      Participant

      Ya, I know….Then???

    • #63895
      sachin
      Participant

      Ya, I know….Then???

    • #63897
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote sachin_at_biog:

      Ya, I know….Then???

      Only I wanted to say that phenotype is the result of genotype and environment. You’ll have to take it in account when you study those mutations, he he ;).

    • #63898
      sachin
      Participant

      Hummm……. You r right…. !!

    • #63902
      oana_t
      Participant

      Well I saw a documentary on Discovery which stated that one of the things that leed to us aging is the cecular respiration which takes place in the mitocondrias. When we breathe they release in our organism a substance (or smth like that) which has a bad effect on our organism. And as u said some descoveries were made and apparently it makes life longer.

    • #63905
      Enzyme
      Participant

      He he, sachin@biog. When you start your research with those genes… Will you keep me informed about your work? 😉 😛

    • #63907
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote oana_t:

      Well I saw a documentary on Discovery which stated that one of the things that leed to us aging is the cecular respiration which takes place in the mitocondrias. When we breathe they release in our organism a substance (or smth like that) which has a bad effect on our organism. And as u said some descoveries were made and apparently it makes life longer.

      That substances are free radicals (superoxide, etc).

    • #63908
      sachin
      Participant
      quote Enzyme:

      He he, sachin_at_biog. When you start your research with those genes… Will you keep me informed about your work? 😉 😛

      Hey…… I m not doing that, well thanx for reminding me that I can do that to… 😆

    • #63910
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote sachin_at_biog:

      quote Enzyme:

      He he, sachin_at_biog. When you start your research with those genes… Will you keep me informed about your work? 😉 😛

      Hey…… I m not doing that, well thanx for reminding me that I can do that to… 😆

      He he he :D, O.K. (remember that you have to keep me informed, eh?) ;).

    • #63914
      sachin
      Participant

      OK I will…….do That…….

    • #63938
      oana_t
      Participant

      That substances are free radicals (superoxide, etc).
      _________________
      Yes u r right. I remeber now. Thank you.

    • #63949
      baikuza
      Participant
      quote Oscerot:

      Unlike me who is totally interested in incorporating certain animal genes into our genomes. 😆

      i bet, you may get some critics about that. 🙄

    • #63958
      Oscerot
      Participant
      quote baikuza:

      i bet, you may get some critics about that. 🙄

      Do you have any idea just how many critics there are about the process of genetic engineering itself?

    • #63975
      Schröder
      Participant
      quote Oscerot:

      quote baikuza:

      i bet, you may get some critics about that. 🙄

      Do you have any idea just how many critics there are about the process of genetic engineering itself?

      And for good reasons too!

    • #64021
      Enzyme
      Participant
      quote oana_t:

      Yes u r right. I remeber now. Thank you.

      You’re welcome ;).

    • #64163
      sachin
      Participant

      Its Ok to have critics… But Politics is Intolerable..

    • #64184
      baikuza
      Participant

      there also many. but, do not you think that it is not a good idea to put animal(s) or other (e.g microorganism) gene (s) into human genes.

    • #64185
      sachin
      Participant

      Ya, Why not; if we can introduce proper mediators then we can get benifited from that…@Baikuza

    • #64188
      baikuza
      Participant

      tell me. why do we need other microorganism or else gene(s)?

      and if you made that human, you will brake the ethic in biology. (-_+)

    • #68072
      hobaoau
      Participant

      We are not worry about what would happen when we were immortal. Whe should think of how can be immortal !!! some Scientists believe that outside there in the university, the existance of so-called "dark matter" will bring power to human so we could go wherever in the university and be immortal be cause we have in our hands the most powerful energy of the university.. you can research more about" dark matter" on google

    • #68113
      Revelark
      Participant
      quote baikuza:

      tell me. why do we need other microorganism or else gene(s)?

      and if you made that human, you will brake the ethic in biology. (-_+)

      Depends on what your ethics are.

    • #68308
      Martian
      Participant
    • #68367
      pyrophoenix
      Participant

      Immortality is not possible.. may be a longer life expectancy…. But not immortality.. The problem lies on the organic constitution of our body.. all that is organic has to wither sooner or later…

    • #68368
      MrMistery
      Participant

      @Martian
      the movie was far out

    • #68380
      Martian
      Participant
      quote pyrophoenix:

      Immortality is not possible.. may be a longer life expectancy…. But not immortality.. The problem lies on the organic constitution of our body.. all that is organic has to wither sooner or later…

      What reasoning brought you to conclude that "organic has to wither sooner or later"? I don’t think this is necessarily true. I think you’re making a huge assumption because we don’t die when some of our cells die. Our cells die all the time, but the human, as a whole, suvives because of continual growth (recreation of cells). If we can continue to study the interworkings of the human, then maybe, just maybe, we may find a way to maintain ourselves forever. It’s good to remain hopeful.

      The only problem I see with this is that we will eventually run out of room to store our memories. We are our memories, so we’ll need bigger storage areas to keep ourselves. I have some better ideas on this.

      Bell rang… g2g.

    • #68945
      ahyeek
      Participant

      For today technology and what human can imagine, i would say we can have computer + AI algorithm to actually help us to have an immortal human.

      Using CCTV to capture human face expression, using NLP technology to capture and process the language and meaning, get computer AI to learn the respond and react of a person.

      So, the AI algorithm in a computer will actually ‘copy’ a alive human brain in a electronic format + the way the person think and analysis. When the person die, the computer system can actually regenerate the person face with expression and react based on what it learned.

      By using 3D or hologram technology, we can have the person model in space and actually talk to us.

      I am actually searching from the web to see any PHD research on this. 🙂

      This I would say within 20 to 30 years, perhaps human can adchieve this.

      ——————–
      Ahyeek
      http://silyeek-tech.blogspot.com

    • #69286
      Martian
      Participant

      Are you saying that we can be replaced by AI? Because, if I become a virtual program (algorithm), then do I still exist? A computer can simulate my personality, but I don’t think I can still experience life in that form. I think a person would be dead in this case.

    • #69454
      ahyeek
      Participant

      Yeah, true. The person will be dead.

      This is only allow the others (like your family member, friends or wife still think you are alive.

      In fact, perhaps 1 day, system can capture your existing memories into a computer system and make you feel exactly in a virtual world. (The movie called Matrix already explain in quite detail of this.)

      The one I suggest is not that advance yet and just only can let our beloved one still able to feel our existence.

      😀
      Ahyeek
      http://silyeek-tech.blogspot.com

    • #69460
      mith
      Participant

      I saw that in a batman beyond episode

    • #69788
      Fozu
      Participant

      i believe in immortal. "佛主" is an immortal.

    • #69789
      mehdi71000
      Participant

      ok maybi this is the way
      every cell has in its an internal clock in its genes wich regulates the cell time that cell dies. how ever cancer is imortal cells, there clock has been turned off some how and they dont die and they keep growing. let me tell you some thing though . we are chemichal being every movement in our body is a result of chemichal reactions. chemichals dont get old. the hydrogen in your body is maby billions of years old. but its in our genes that we are designed to get old. if you can find this proseess in genes that stops some sells to function as well as in youthfull years. you can make humans imortal i think. but the question remains why are we designed to die? 😯

    • #69940
      Caspase
      Participant

      This seems silly because we cant defeat genetic error rate. So even if cancer becomes manageable over a long enough time span we will have a completely different genetic code. So I guess this is impossible until we can successfully restructure the genetic code of an adult at any time we wish.

    • #98688
      blueblackhusky
      Participant

      Hello to all of you!

      If the question was really intended from a scientific/genetic point of view, and not a phylosophical one as this discussion seems to have developed, then I am happy to try to help out.

      I think that probably what you all have somehow heard of to produce these ideas about the possibility of immortality is telomerase (if I am not mistaken, the research for which the Nobel prize was awarded last year).

      Telomerase, as the word’s ending "-ase" suggests, is an enzyme present in eukaryote cells. It is a reverse transcriptase. Usually, transcriptases transcribe ("write off") information from a DNA molecule to a RNA molecule, in the transcription phase of protein biosynthesis. Now, telomerase is called a reverse transcriptase because it does things the other way around – it transcribes information from an RNA to a DNA. This is used to fix a problem in the replication process in the cell, namely that of chromosomes having telomeres (the ends that are made of mostly repetitive sequences with no actual value but the protection of the actual genetic information on the chromosome from various enzymes in the cell). Problems occur because very often polymerases, the enzymes that build the new DNA strand when copying, detach themselves too soon from the old strand, or even before reaching the telomere. So, the new DNA strand has less protective repetitive DNA, which decreases after every copied generation, and ultimately, there will be a DNA with no protective ends, so enzymes will start gnawing on that good, relevant coding sequences the cell needs in order to function normally and not grow senescent at a very fast pace. This is where telomerase acts up: through its structure it can build new protective sequences at the end of the chromosome and thus protect it from being degraded.

      It has been found to be highly active in embryonic cells (stem cells) and cancer cells, both of which have an unlimited division potential and are thus said to be "eternal", with no definite apoptosis ("programmed cell death", or an internal clock like mehdi71000 put it) like most cells have. But in most cells telomerase grows inactive, so scientists think that maybe by reactivating it in fully grown somatic cells they might be able to stop aging and assure us immortality.

      Still, it remains a very controversial subject, because degradations at chromosome ends are definitely not the only mutation-generating factors for the DNA, so we probably still would get sick, and to think we could prevent/correct any mutation is very, very farfetched, especially since we all have unique DNA sequences, no matter how much alike they are. So, at this point, with "official knowledge" this is not possible, but who knows? maybe in the future we’ll invent an automation for sequencing every person’s genome fast and cheap, and have enough specialists to interpret that for every person…perhaps like a gene doctor. But the complexity would still be mind-blowing. Plus, like someone said before, if you get your head chopped off, those flawless sequences are really not going to help you out 😆 .

      Hope this helps.

    • #98690
      simpleton
      Participant

      yeah, blueblackhusky is right.

      I saw in the news quite sometimes back where groups of scientists are working on telomere and how to use it to lengthen lives. I guess, with the available info we had for now, telomeres seem to be the key to immortal cells where the cells can replicate for more times. It’s a biological clock which shorten after every cell cycle and as mentioned, the reason why cancer cells can keep proliferating is because they have exceptionally long telomeres.

      But in my opinions, telomeres alone are not sufficient to ensure immortal cells. The key is how we can ensure accuracy in the replication of immortal cells otherwise, we will all be mutants. Haha! And it’s very important to have the ability to replace mutated cells with embryonic stem cells. Then again, there limitation to using ES cells to combat disease for instance, if it’s a disease caused by germ line then there’s no way we can use ES cells to resolve the germline disease. In addition, maintaining balance between cell apoptosis/cell growth.

      The beauty of science is that there’s no absolute answer right? 😀 So there’s always room for imagination!

      As for why Nature created us and subject us to programmed death; perhaps we can only get the answer from Mother Nature. Just like till now, we still can’t answer the question on egg-first-or-chicken-first.

      Cheers!

      -I don’t want to be immortal; living can be quite tiring-

    • #98708
      Moocow4u2
      Participant

      I don’t think it’s possible, if it was we’d over populate the world so we would need more space for housing and stuff like that and eventually we would run out of space or have food shortages trying to feed everyone alive. so I think if immortality was possible and nobody was dying people would eventually be starving to death and we would have lots of people living on the streets.

    • #98740
      kolean
      Participant

      Do you think that if we had the chance for immortality (anybody), that the way society thinks and acts would not be changed? Like for example, procreation. Why would you want to procreate? And sure, the pleasure of sex will still be there, but wouldn’t you be more selective? as you could possibly have the chance to have everyone at one time or another (LOL!). I think it would change the way society conducts itself.

    • #98742
      JackBean
      Participant

      do you think, that people would not want kids anymore? The question is, whether the immortal people would be forever young or some old people who are damn still here! 🙂
      In the first case, the wish for kids could be reduced (or at least you could have them when e.g. 100 years old:), but IMHO people would still like to have some kids…

    • #98750
      Haroonpakistan
      Participant

      Even if it is possible again the religios portion will stop its pratic in humans for at least 50 year of its discovery and the legal problems too………. bt achievng imortallity is possible if nt that thn atleast increasing ones life span is achievable in my view

    • #98753
      david23
      Participant

      Yeah I can see the kids logic. The majority of conservative and religious cultural groups are driven by their traditions to have a good job, then marriage, and eventually kids. In those cultures obtaining a family is considered a success and fulfillment but it comes at the expense of personal freedom and a lot of stress. People who can live a lot longer will have luxury of putting that of indefinitely if possible

    • #98754
      kolean
      Participant

      Would religon even be needed if immortality was a reality?

      If regeneration was the key to immortality, then there would not be 100 year old people walking around. I would put their appearances at the peak of tissue age: 20?
      (Eek! to have hormones for all of reality? would need to work on phasing that out of the genome! and metabolism!).

      Can you even begin to imagine a society in which the fear of dying/death, is not an influence on your daily life?

      Do have to point out though, that dismemberment may be something that regeneration may have a problem fixing.

    • #98758
      david23
      Participant

      Thats a interesting thought. Most religions and various philosophies all have an afterlife component to it. I suppose many of our current society’s ethics and morality, rule of law wouldn’t be a big issue either.

    • #98766
      kolean
      Participant

      Also think about the concept of kids. It won’t be to have children as a way to take over the role of the family legacy. It will be another person being brought into this reality, and they will now take resources that may be your chance to survive (assuming that we still have to ingest resources to provide energy for the biological machine that we are, even if we can regenerate).

      Just thinking about how people will still have sex and not think about the consequences, and children will still be born, and I guess the possiblity of overgrowing the population with no one dying, and resources becoming scarce is a great possiblity. Mmmmm….

      Maybe while I am trying to figure out regeneration for humans, I better think of an antidote while I am at it also 😉

    • #104478
      hellokittyobsest
      Participant

      u should cite ur sources…it would be way more than $50…hello Dr.Maria Victoria Gonzaga Mozo…can u post on my topic post…i need lots of help on this…asap…u seem to know alot about this topic and might be able to help with my views and interests on the matter…

    • #104479
      hellokittyobsest
      Participant

      just to write something on the topic…gravity plays a key role in age so yea its not all genetics…

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